My life is so much better now that I have the bread/dough (double entendre). Good little Suckers in the Mooch-and-Sucker Show. In some cases, a speech impediment Be Holy, for I am Holy! Once the new pastor arrived, it quickly went Neo-Cal. The man boy who took over my former church immediately had his title changed to lead pastor. All believers have access to Jesus, scripture, and the power of the Holy Spirit. I attended McLean Bible for about 4 years starting in 2000 and it certainly wasnt Neo Cal then. You really ned to check out Twitter to get a better idea of what these guys are doing and see some of the connections. He speaks at the Southern Baptist Convention @Richard- My family also attends (Soon to be attended) MBC and feel the exact opposite. Here is a cautious, rather underwhelming, statement from the trustees att the IMB : Our president, Dr. David Platt, has expressed a deep sense of calling to serve as My wife just got home from her evening shift & I put in overtime. (And to be accurate, he preached only 20 of 25 weeks in his first 6 months on the job, so he has effectively had 3 months off in his first 8 months of his job.). They must have gone in in laparoscopically. . They involve prep time, sometimes some fairly in-depth research and number crunching with a spreadsheet when I have to bring in a group to talk over why they have so many issues in a six month period or why their change requests failed more often than the average. Or is FIEC the T4G/TGC/9Marks beachhead in the kingdom? One time my former FIEC church had Don Carson come to preach and my friends were so excited by it. I dont have a problem with the word pastor being used for clergy. Of course, we are to do stuff, but the text never says we are to do witnessing as if it is apart from who we are. Additionally, DeYoung is a member of The Gospel Coalition Council and writes frequent articles for their blog, is the Senior pastor of Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, North Carolina, is an active member of the celebrity Christian conference circuit, teaches at Reformed Seminary, and is working on his Ph.D. As for spending 20-25 hours to prepare a sermon, that may be the case with a real pastor, but in my research I have found it is rarely the case with the busy celebrity preachers. What is Jesus gospel? Full time pastor.TGC chairman. He wont sacrifice financially. (1) fr. Best to believe and follow Jesus, rather than in any man. We always sit in the back and still do. So when I see that Platt is not being paid a salary, I question that, unless hes already covered in this area by his IMB salary and perks. Paul gave sermons in the public spaces and synagogues. I mean its not that big of a deal until you look at a pattern in the entire movement. Small fellowships are well and good, but you darn well better get your fanny in a seat to hear the pastor preach on a regular basis, or else youre doin it wrong. ), @ Law Prof: Hi Bridget, Anyway, the sermon was completely delusional. In what respects? You want to be a prima donna with a weekend gig? Im fine with paying staff, pastors, etc, but dont insist theres a New Testament mandate for the paid career program we see. Stomach full of staples for another week, but back to work with a few restrictions. I know of a Bible church in our area (the Triangle Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill) where it appears the elders, not the congregation, hand-picked the pastor. There is no such thing as a teaching pastor in scripture. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? We are human beings not human doings. Didnt know why that put Okrapods named instead of TEDSgrad. McLean has gradually lost the credibility it once had back in the 80s and 90s. I believe this is the way missions should be viewed and accomplished. We have been attending MBC for 4 years. And yet theyre the very people we should be hearing about, because they are setting an example worth following. Speech is a complex process that requires precise timing, nerve and muscle control, and as a result is susceptible to impairments. We are called to be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, so the more I followed up with Davids teaching I found that he plays fast and loose with Gods word. Different people; different needs. Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker. Apparently this post is getting a lot of play out there. Perhaps it could be in a negative senseIOW, everything this man said to do, do the opposite. I think the title of pastor has lost its meaning. Can someone explain to me how you can spend 20-25 hours a week preparing a sermon? I am a member of MBCbut now a former member as of today. Whos We? Were connected. He wants that title. Earlier this year,Plattwent to McLean Bible Church as in interim pastor. I find it interesting that Paul never did this, at least in his letters. GSD, That s not how it works. I dont try to use gender inclusive language. what these guys are doing and see some of the connections. ____ What about the way New Testament leaders and teachers apparently worked to provide their own physical sustenance, so they would not be burdensome on the believers, oh, say, tent-making, for example? People want to belong. the title teaching pastor means they do not have to interact with the peasant pew sitters. Free Ride: Please, No Explanations Inside The MBC Church. If left to ourselves, well always eat the same food. Its a lie that endures because the congregations think that should be how much time a pastor spends on the sermon. I am a member of MBCbut now a former member as of today. Preparation time can't look the same for that, but only having to preach one text a week gives me the liberty and the opportunity to spend between 20 and 25 hourssometimes less, sometimes morein the text during the week. I disagree here. @ Gram3: Christianity started around a table, not a pulpit. Like your husband, I am deeply touched when a pastor knows my name & uses it in a kind way. Maybe not. Deep stuff like At the Movies or You Asked for It. I am preparing myself to disciple others. The response I had no right to ask to speak to the pastor, the pastor is a very busy man (busy doing what?) It was taped and shown later. Then I had to remember all the sermons I had listend to and how deeply moved I was by his heart for Missions and Jesus. How can you pastor a church if you dont meet the sheep???? The role of the pastor is to embody the gospel. He speaks very quietly and sometimes it is hard to make out what he is saying. But if somebody puts out substance I will sit on the pew and put money in the plate and forgive an awful lot to get it. There is an interesting discussion on this subject between Mark Driscoll, James McDonald and Mark Dever here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukvHuwFzBA. David Platt to Be a Teaching PastorIs it a Bridge Too Far for the IMB President? He knew when He inspired the authors of the Bible just exactly what would be going on now. He sounds like a driven man. Mohler and Company: The tweets from these guys add an extra dimension to the posts at TWW. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? But were also jaded when it comes to the typical format of church. I know of churches that have moved into an area and purchased an existing building. @ Tree: I never really made it past the Introduction in the book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church because he did not include prayer in the 9 Marks. David Platt states that he spends 20-25 hours preparing for one sermon. What I see happening is horrifying. Im sure the new name for the SBC has already been determined because Southern and Baptist and Convention is not going to work. You see, he gets to go to church with them and then get up and preach/teach. __ Still, he remained there 8 years and was sent off to the IMB with cheers and praise. I have heard so much drivel from the pulpits over the years that they probably wont even have to use formaldehyde, or whatever, on my body; the drivel will be enough preservative. Both should be evident, though. The church is the Bride of Christ, it is a place to make disciples and make the Gospel known. These pastors faithfully execute the responsibilities of their jobs, but those who so desire can carve out a fairly cushy lifestyle as a pastor. ___ We do need bread from heaven we live by the Word of God; it should come from the pulpit, but God can use anyone to bring forth a word, anywhere. Cant leave much time for family. Call him a speaker, not a pastor. Im sick of that garbage, especially as used by people like Platt, because that great calling they love to reference is code for My calling is bigger than yours, and if you plebes dont submit, youre against the Lord. Im familiar with the loophole, it is another one of those things that violates my classical liberal sensibilities as does the property tax exclusion that no other non-profit enjoys. Theyre either ignorant of the law or lying to you and blowing you off. No disrespect to the multitude of honest, hard working real pastors who labor faithfully, week in and week out in normal churches with an average of 100-200 in attendance each week. So, again, how is this guy spending 20-25 hours a week on a sermon? Most of the congregation will never realize this as they are caught up in the cult of personality. . Every inch of my kitchen counter is covered with stuff. More customers flock in/buy in to the marketing strategy and feel that the product enhances their life its even enriched and fortified. I totally disagree with that concept. I think the answer lies in two seemingly unrelated things sometime ~1997 when 9Marks took off and when SGM became Reformed. C.J. They seem to have united around pragmatic Authoritarianism and Complementarianism. Meeting in homes instead of large church buildings? Its the most important part of the Baptist church, in the eyes of many. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. I think I now have the answer. As for the public gathering, God promises to be present where two or three are gathered. God wants to team with us and envigorate the process with his life-giving, explosive self Anyway, I love that, and I love Ed's voice! Dr. said it was about to go, but he got it out without the mess. He would make a great traveling speaker, which is what he was before he came to Brook Hills. The shared leadership not taking full-time pay checks from their fellow believers, perhaps? Ive even seen multi-media pastor. I ran in a 5k on Labor Day where he won the 40-44 division. Same as most 9M churches they pay lip service to prayer but dont labor in much prayer. It looks like he is staying on. There was a youth minister a childrens minister and an education Minister. He was completely tone deaf to our concerns. God can work with plan A, plan B, plan C, etc. Im aware that the owner of a local restaurant does something similar. We are disgusted that its gone neo-Cal and SBC. He will never know the names of the members of his church. Not a clue. We gather together to worship the LORD and edify, exhort, and encourage on another (dont forget admonish and instruct). "If Its Not Sex Abuse, Its Money, and Nothing Says Spend and Keep Quiet About It Like the SBCs North American Mission Board" New TWW post. It is not a place for mature Christians to sit in the back and ask 1 man what can you do for me?. Oh yeah-thats the guy who shows us how not to be crazy busy-now *pastor* of a lg church and seminary professor. While checking that one for accuracy, I came across this one too: Id like to die like my old dad, peacefully in his sleep. Maybe I did not put it across very well and I certainly agree with you about the importance of the two great commandments. I said " E, that's not a true story! If we hope to reveal the worth of Gods love to others, what has it cost us? I would like to say to all of you. Heres one thats guaranteed to make my progressive brothers and sisters recoil in horror and get their boxers and panties in a dither every time: There is something missing here. @ AnonInNC: Exodus 40 10-17 we see that God appointed Aaron as spokesman for Moses. First thought is David Platt misses having a large live audience every week. The produce being sold includes commercial growers, according to the signs on their pickup trucks. He is doing exactly this! Unfortunately, churches have become so institutionalized it is almost impossible for that person to do what God meant for them to do. You cant have it both ways and these special privileges may prove to be a future rationalization for government meddling. I wholeheartedly agree with this: Folks, find a church in which you have a real pastor, not a talking head who offers nothing different than a podcast Find a pastor who knows your names and will come and sit with you when you are in the hospital. When I was in my former church, my husband, a friend and I led a Sunday school class that was well attended. They know the church wont stand for taking away the Worship Service, so they gut it of all meaning and keep the label. but then disillusioning applies to so many issues relating to this silly religion of mine. But brother or sister, these nine jobs are biblical, and that is why they are so valuable.. When The Tron church heft the CofS their website said they were goingto join the International Presbyterian Church. Even during a famine, the lowly, needy, hungry lepers find bread in another camp (1 Kings 7:9) the presence of their enemies, and proclaim the Good News that will end the famine. .The idea that the person doing the preaching must be the same person doing the ministering is really born of later parish systems, not the New Testament text. What about the way New Testament leaders and teachers apparently worked to provide their own physical sustenance, so they would not be burdensome on the believers, oh, say, tent-making, for example? (But seriously, 20-25 hrs a week on prep? I ran in a 5k on Labor Day where he won the 40-44 division. Yes- he is doing it for free. Cheaper.only pay one pastor and get double the offerings? (But seriously, 20-25 hrs a week on prep? We were rather shocked about his attitude toward pastoring. Ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach for free. No longer are the artisan bakers needed too costly; standardize the formula and hire those who will not think but just follow the dictates of the formula how to do it. Its soft and glides down the throat kids love it with the crust cut-off. 2013-04-01 11:06:03. It was never my preferred choice, though. Platt has always been a figurehead at the IMB, in my opinion. Because healthy community is missional. I have a list of questions, maybe some information from the impacted group, a Reason for Outage, problem tickets and that sort of thing to work from, and I dont spend that much time. It is only a money and power grab for them. He is not taking a salary. The non Cal-Staff members eventually left and were replaced with SBTS people. In recent years we have made great strides in add ministry; that is, administration. Guest speaker or consultant perhaps, but not a pastor. Why would the love of God mean that we were created to merely be lap dogs good for nothing more than some sort of warm fuzzy feeling. I just listened to a YRR pup give a 45 minute tearful sermon on the huge sacrifice he is making to leave the church he ruined after 5 years to be a teaching pastor in a mega. This money comes to you tax free, as you (unlike the rest of us Americans who dont have pastor or Reverend in front of our names) do not have to pay federal income tax on that portion. The messages were pretty much the same. If he recognizes a familiar face, he has a short chat. 4). It has been assigned to any imaginable paid position in an institutional church. Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. My impression is that these guys truly have no intention to get to know or love anyonethey only desire to lead! Same here. Wonder what draws the short stick? But at some point, arent we supposed to grow up into some degree of self-reliance, as far as the scriptures are concerned? Anything bursting in there makes surgery, clean up, and recovery much more extensive. I have been hearing from a few folks. The main trend Ive seen over the past 20 years or so is that the Calvinist/Non-Calvinist divide at the top of the SBC does not seem to be an issue. As far as the east is from the west, false Christianity makes the big bucks these days in the land of the affluent for many have bought into the belief that Jesus came to make us healthy, wealthy, and prosperous. Local believers who had plenty sharing personally with other local believers who had need? People do what they think will achieve the goal that they have. 2) And making way too much of it at the other. They are the symptoms of diabetes an epidemic in our generation. Moses and Joshua ministered unto the LORD; Samuel was ministering unto the LORD (trimming the lamps); Paul and Barnabas were ministering unto the LORD when the Spirit separated them unto Himself (Acts 13:2). Its also tricky if there is something messy with IMB and NAMB that is as yet undisclosed. Hi GSD, If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. Where is my intentionality in all that? When he recently encountered a young man who stutters at a Keene, The church is the Bride of Christ, it is a place to make disciples and make the Gospel known. No worries, Arnold. Presented by a city councilman and including several city engineers. It makes me wonder what hes running from. Just suggesting we might try doing things His way if we want them to turn out well. @ Lydia: Of course there are many in between, but I continue to be amazed how many people do not put much thought into what they do and say.. our immediate culture is makin this worse. I seriously have heard the exact same sermon at three churches, with the same title and even the same examples, and all of those pastors boasted about the amount of time they spent writing their sermons. In the United States, theres a reason for that, and it has to do with income taxes. Sopy, youve been too long on the mushrooms I think. my view is that To others, it takes years, years during which lose sleep worrying about not doing enough social work and not being worthy of salvation. thats totally awesome. 7). My problem with the tax breaks for churches and staff is they dont want government intrusion but then want to keep special exemptions. Unless you show me some passages that demonstrate it was the norm. Nor do they ever get any deeper. It is ended, neither by might of appeal (marketing) nor power of delivery systems, but by My Spirit, says the LORD. So I went and prayed, then listened to his latest sermon and once again I was reminded possibly by the Holy Spirit how anointed this man is. But since we were talking about why hire a teaching pastor who is already employed full-time elsewhere for only the purpose of giving sermons, and okrapod asked why cant pastors and staff be diversified. I use Word, revelation, and proclamation almost inter-changeably. Is gathering together to worship the right venue to go after the lost? (Cars, housing, funding for private schooling for his children, etc.). According to SBC This Weekhe is only going to teach (give sermons) and will not do anything else in the church. feeling tension over what is duplicitous, deceitful, self-promoting under the cover of God is a healthy response. Thanks for chiming in! The other day on a Facebook page that I like, the post was a political one. Id be very interested. I think that people are more comfortable with Jesus loves me (a song) than they are with keep my commandments (a direct quote from the mouth of Jesus) and some folks find it easy to play the two off against each other in order to avoid whatever they want to avoid and take advantage of whatever they want to take advantage of. And while Im at it, Ive been on enough church building projects to know that buildings and public meetings arent necessarily blessings. Do we condemn them after we have taken our profit (Ezek. Today isnt all that special nor or we so special that we just know more than God. This is it in its entirety. Its like a code for the party apparatus, comrade. For the life of me Ive never understood, either, why we think we need someone to hold our hands when someone dies besides the Body of Christ. Trustees also will evaluate McLeans level of partnership with the Southern Baptist Convention. If God is truly visible in our midst, we will not have to build bridges to the community; they will build them to us to get to God. I look forward to further comments if you are so inclined, Seulement vous, Jsus peut montrer cette vision de lhomme aveugle! (1)), Spy Mahaney. This is a predicate. Going back to the comments about receiving Communion. And I have also been enriched by being able to participate in some of the missions work at McLean. No say in the process but you had best pony up to pay his salary! But I could be mis-understanding you. Again, I ask, what exactly makes anyone think their fellowship is somehow going to do it better that the most humble man in the history of the world? https://www.mcleanbible.org/blog/letter-lon-solomon. Viewing David Platts past online sermon videos smack of the same toxic religious syndrome in store for MBC members as well. It leaves in its wake dis-ease. No longer do we judge anyone who looks as haggled as we do, thinking they are just too lazy to even get properly dressed. The model in the New Testament was shared leadership. Youre modeling New Testament now? Whats going on? Frauds, mountebanks, and carnival barkers, thats all they are. Jesus said 3x, Feed my sheep. They are His sheep. Incidentally, in the spirit of holding fast to that which is good, Ill choose to remember David Platt for his superb goal for England against Belgium in the 1990 World Cup finals in Italy: And why didnt Jesus, His Disciples, and His Apostles, make the big bucks and the lives of the rich and famous as we see witnessed today with the great evangelists, preachers and teachers of our day? Case in point; many years ago my mother, a widow, attended a small church. Nor do they ever get any deeper. Personally, I respect organization, but my most pressing need is for substance. Of course, were they to turn it into a profit center and start renting it out for profit, thatd be different, but nothing in the tax code stops them from performing a community service like that. @ Todd Wilhelm: But I know I cant do that forever. But they are the foundation to faith and give definition and motivation to service (in light of His great love). Yes, if nothing else I wonder how much of a burden these self-acclaimed superman leaders put on the rest of us who cannot seem to do as much as they do. But a sermon writing service? Where is most of ones time spent? Second thought is the IMB Presidency is a full-time job which God also called him to and God is not as flakey as David Platt appears to be. The church has completely lost its relevance. We plan to revisit this matter in our February trustee meeting.. So why do we continue supporting this made up role? And its the craziest thing ever. As much as I fault 9Marks, one of the things that Mark Dever got right was a panel discussion at SBTS many years ago about multi-site churches. Im familiar with the loophole, it is another one of those things that violates my classical liberal sensibilities as does the property tax exclusion that no other non-profit enjoys. I generally know what to expect, altho Ive had my share of surprisesmy motto is there is no such thing as a straightforward issue. And then, in adulthood, we become the teachers, the feeders ourselves? Remembering your thoughts from another post equating charismatics need for a sign (miracles) and evangelicals need for a sign (changed lives), I suppose preaching is another sign that is used to mesmerise the patrons, and like you suggest, build an empire. This is made up of churches that left the Churchn of Scotland over homosexual ordination/ marriage etc and other churches that either are or became independent within the Gospel Partnership group. If we show the world what a high cost we are willing to pay for Gods love, the world might be able to look outside the order of created things and see a Hope that they would be willing to pay the cost for. One would hope that those who have been given the gift of pastoring by the Holy Spirit, would likewise live their lives and ministries appropriately. Is this the same Augustine who is considered one of the fathers of the faith? Thanks Grad. Based on that I was planning to make MBC my home church. 34:1-10)? He was certainly a captain whom you could rely on to turn up and put in a shift when the team was under pressure. Day-to-day leaders of the church living and working shoulder-to-shoulder with all the one anothers? Some churches in my area have a Farmers Market on weekends in their parking lot. And, I dont see church life as being an effective way to keep theologians from getting off-track.